Abbott Elementary’s Janelle James Was Never Going to Play a Loser

The queen is back on her throne. Actually, scratch that. The throne is wherever she sits.

The final five episodes of Abbott Elementary’s fourth season proved just how far Ava Coleman (Janelle James) has come as a principal and, most affectingly, a human being. This season, Ava took the fall for her teachers when their collective scheme to blackmail the local golf course and take bribes for supplies was revealed to the school board — and got her fired on the spot. Out of Abbott and thriving in the motivational-speaker circuit, Ava soon realizes that the fulfillment just isn’t there and gives the teachers permission to appeal her firing. Just about everyone tangentially related to the Abbott community shows up to plead for Ava’s reinstatement in a gymnasium school-board showdown, and, in a hard-fought twist, their request is granted. (As one parent put it, “She transformed this run-down elementary school into an unpredictable music venue.”) Ava is back, baby! The season finale serves as a well-deserved victory lap, in which she gets a sense of closure with her father (Keith David) and becomes exclusive with a hot IT guy (Matthew Law).

James, for her part, believes Ava’s leadership skills and ingenuity have been embedded in Abbott Elementary since the start of the show. “For people who are paying attention,” James says, “these are all thoughts and feelings Ava has always expressed.” The inclusion of her father and a compelling love interest, though, add a new dimension to the woman who once arranged student files by sexiest dads. “I’m so honored that Quinta Brunson and the writers trust me to do all these different nuances,” she says. “It’s very easy to have kept her as a one-note zinger, and I was killing it at that. But to be able to do more has been amazing.”

The final word Ava has this season is describing her relationship with the students. She gets to “help them rebound from adversity and keep growing.” How have you seen those ideas reflected in your character recently?
She’s speaking about her life throughout the show. I look at something that happened in season two, when the school did the fundraiser and Ava and Barbara got into it about how she was teaching the kids how to hustle. Barbara was not with it. And she explained, “Hey, I had to hustle as a young person and I’m trying to teach these kids the same way, because everybody doesn’t have the same leg up or the privileges you have.” It’s been more explicit this season, but she’s always been on the side of the kids, meeting them where they are, and knowing exactly what they’re going through. It was more poignant because she got fired, and we found out that she didn’t even need this job. Some people say, “Oh, she doesn’t care about the kids. She’s not a good principal.” She’s only there at this point for the kids and for the school. She’s there because she wants to be.

I know a lot of viewers were hoping Ava would always stay her delightfully terrible self. My colleague even wrote an article saying as much a few years ago. Did you see the vision for Ava’s growth or did you need to be somewhat convinced?
No, because I always felt she was a layered character. It’s funny that people in between the laughs can’t hear the heart. People were focusing only on the jokes. When other teachers spoke about her and how she does things, they pointed to her caring about the school and every interaction she has with the kids. You can see she’s involved, knows their names, and the students joke with her and feel comfortable coming to her. She runs the principal’s office not as a place of punishment, but peace and understanding. All of those things already existed, so it didn’t surprise me that these things were revealed. But in the same way that you mentioned that article, what I do think is an indication of excellent writing is that Ava really hasn’t changed that much. She’s not all of a sudden a new person. She still has the same personality and is still hilarious. You’re just learning more about her. You wouldn’t see the vulnerable relationship side of her in a school, so we’ve brought in a love interest. You wouldn’t see how she feels about her family because she’s at work, so we brought in a dad. Those were super-smart ways to allow her to reveal more about herself. I know I’m a hilarious lady, and I’m not only that.

When she decides she wants to get her job back in “Ava Fest: Tokyo Drift,” she finally admits, “For some really annoying reason that I can’t explain, I miss it here.” What do you think that annoying reason is?
Janine. The most interesting relationship on this show for me is Ava and Janine. It’s been changing throughout the seasons. In the first season, Ava didn’t really like her. It was more of a bully-and-bullied relationship. Then Janine goes to the district, she gets a little backbone, and makes Ava respect her a little bit with that decision. Janine has upped her fashion and hair game. She’s taken advice from Ava. Then in the third season, Ava is taking advice from Janine and not bullying as much. And now this season, they’re dressing alike and a big sister–little sister relationship is happening. I’ve always thought that Janine and Ava are two different sides of the same coin. Janine has her mother issues and Ava has her dad issues, and they both have vulnerability issues because of those things. They recognize themselves in each other, and that’s what makes them fight and get along.

I’m sure this is something Ava will never admit to Janine.
Maybe in the last episode of the series or on her deathbed. Just like a real big sister.

Is there a part of you that still believes Ava is destined for a bigger life outside of the school?
Certainly, if she wants it. Sky’s the limit for Ava, and that’s one of the things I like about her. If she wants to do something bigger, she will. But at this moment, she wants to remain in the school, so that’s what she’ll do. I don’t think the side hustles are ever going to stop, because that would be stupid. She does love money. Will she take off to do something else? I don’t know about that.

Was there ever a scenario considered where, during this firing period, Ava isn’t actually successful and puts on a front for everyone? There was some fleeting tension in “Music Class” where it looked like she might’ve been full of shit.
I don’t know if it was considered in the writing room, but I’m glad they didn’t. That’s the easy way to do it. I know for myself and many other Black women, we’re hustlers. We always talk a big game because we have a big game going. I was glad she proved that’s another way she’s an asset to this school. Look how many things she’s good at. Look how many connections she has that contribute to the school. Look how many people she knows. That’s why Ava Fest is the shit every year and why she’s able to raise money and make things happen. All the things she brags about is what she then contributes to the school. I like that because that’s how I am. I wasn’t a loser. She’s not, and that’s why people enjoy her. I feel like the people who don’t secretly wish they were less losers. Some people don’t like confidence, but that’s on them.

Do you hope Ava takes up her father’s offer to see him more often, if only to spend more time with Keith David?
I do not. I’m of the mind that Ava is an adult. It’s been a long time. Most people would be like, Well, because time has passed, forgive and forget and yadda yadda. I don’t think she owes him anything. Her dad showing up with a couple dollars and a pizza, whatever, doesn’t erase anything, nor does it inform him of who she is and vice versa. She doesn’t know who he is. He disappeared when she was a kid. I think it’s very sitcom to be like, “Oh, and now we’ve made up!” We’re not a sitcom that does the usual. The same thing could’ve happened if we found out Ava has actually been lying and living in a PO box place this whole time. We didn’t do that. That was what was expected. So I would think — and I would like to show what happens in real life — that he doesn’t get to repair that relationship. She doesn’t owe him that. And that heals her in a way already. She doesn’t have to be involved in his life to get the healing.

You’ve said that Ava sometimes touches your real personality a little too closely. In what ways?
I’ve been told by people who’ve been on long-running shows that this always happens: The character becomes closer and closer to your real personality. I think as the writers get to know me, talk to me, and stalk me on Instagram, they’re taking lots of things from my own personality, my own speech, and my stand-up. For example, my entrance as a motivational speaker was a direct copy of how I rise from the audience for a stand-up set. I thought that was funny. Motivational speaking is very similar to standing onstage and telling jokes. I love fashion. My favorite book was in an episode, Parable of the Sower. It’s a bit of a mindfuck. I’m flattered that they think I’m so interesting that my personality is also going to show. We’re all melding more and more into our characters.

Have you found that viewers sometimes have trouble separating you from your character?
There’s no “sometimes” about it. They think I am her. Right now, I’m choosing to look at that as a compliment. I’m doing such a great job that they think this person exists in the real world.

What’s a part of Ava’s life that has, so far, gone unexplored that you’re curious about?
Her home. Where does she live? What does that look like? It’s probably pretty fly. But it’s full of stuff that she sells on the side — full of inventory. I’d love to see that set design. Also, where was she before she was a principal? What were those gigs like? I would love it if it was also some other job she wasn’t qualified for; she just got bored with it and then became a principal. That’d be hilarious. Who are her friends outside of the school? It doesn’t seem like she has many, since she was alone on Christmas. What’s that about?

Ava’s extremely convoluted filing system for the students is based on the show Survivor. Is that show important to your life at all?
I remember Survivor when it first came out. I had no idea it was still on and so big, and I had no idea what Ava was talking about. It took me so long to get that in my brain; I’m still not sure I understand it. I thought it was super cool and ballsy of us to be talking about that show while it’s on another network at the same time. I would’ve preferred an America’s Next Top Model filing system: “Season one, the glamour shot, who had to shave their head, starts with ‘K.’”

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